Discussion in 'News & happenings' started by BANHAMMER, Sep 29, 2014.
Source: Modi announces lifelong visas for Indian diaspora - The Hindu
Modi's talk quite interesting like Indian movie dialogues, i have always had firm belief that politicians one who can speak well have only been able to fool people in the past, example : Karunanithi, hope i am wrong.
Modi said he will bring USA to India and we don't have to be employees of american companies when address a meeting during his campaign but now looks like the tables gave turned, he markets India in USA for cheap labor, he speaks about make in India where the chief guests are CEO's of company who continue to import their major chunk from china, he called for mission accomplished in 2 years then changed to 5 years now he is speaking about mission 2022, i have strong feeling this modi and his talks are just going to be day dreams for Indians but again i hope i am wrong.
1. People like to listen good stuff from leaders, all great leaders were good speakers including Mahatma Gandhi, Lal Bhadur Shastri, Churchill(though I personally dislike him).
2. Manufacturing is an important part for economy to grow. China attained its growth due to large manufacturing facilities. The Labour is cheap in India, which is a fact, why would anyone want to downplay that?
3. Again, the goals are revised when you realise the actuality of situation. He is a politician, not CFO to make an accurate forecast. I assume those were loose words, even if they are delayed by 3-4 year, for such large target, it is not a bad time frame. Mind it, congress has screwed whole economy to the death. It is herculean task to recover it.
4. It is forward thinking that he is planning for large term goal like something 2022. The governments should have plans for long term projects. For example high speed railways will be put in commission in 10+ year, it is not possible to do such a large project in say 4-5 years. The realistic long term plan is good.
Again, by far I am not a big supporter but given what we had for last 10 years, I am willing to give this one to see how it turns out. The country has already gone to dogs anyway, if the shit gets fvcked up even futher than it will only lead me to tank my hopes completely and think we are bound to get fvcked up.
Personally i don't believe Mahatma Gandhi was a good leader, Bhadur Shastri was a good leader.
people do like to listen good stuff from leaders but good stuff should be in touch with reality, in 1967 M karunathi did was modi is doing now here in tamil nadu and defeated congress and the brilliant honest rule of kamaraj, it took a few years before people start to realize all the word of mouth and fake promises can never become reality, kamaraj on the other hand was not a great speaker but a man who speak only what was actually possible so people failed to understand him and leaned towards the dreamy words of karunanithi and the rest is history.
Labor in India is cheap, it is a known fact, it is modi during his election campaign spoke the opposite stating Indians should be employed as cheap labors to multinational company and now the tables are being turned by the same modi, this proves for the sake of winning he talks something and after coming to power he speaks an entirely different thing, this also proves that he is a leader with no proper ideology and will change anything for his personal gain.
1. Correlation doesn't equate to causation. Being a good leader and being good speaker could exist. They are not inverse of each other. There is no theory which says so. There may be few examples but the opposite exists as well. Bapu was a great leader, there are testimonies to the effect.His books give insight to his organisation skills and ease of carrying them out. Ofcourse, he was flawed in a lot of things, but as a Leader, I doubt there are many who can match him.
I am sorry but I discard your opinion completely and utterly in that regards.
2. Again, it is same thing and twisting of words. Whereas while Indian labour is cheaper COMPARED to west, it is still not the cheapest in the world. When he says you don't have to work cheap, which should be indication that you don't have to exploited by foreign companies. That is how I interpret it. There is nothing to the effect that says he is just exploiting cheap labour. He is a politician and they twist around words and do exactly one thing and present it in two ways.
Western world needs a lot of advertisement and a big show, which he is giving.
Again, I do not thing he is the best India has to offer. I would disown him first if he turns out to be corrupt or immoral man. But so far, that is not true. We have 5 years to judge.
If Gandhi was a great leader then he would have not handed India to Nehru, he would have not gotten the independence at a premature stage where the British was ready to run leaving infant India after plundering all of the wealth,so the plan to join all the rivers of India made by the British never saw the light of the day ,this only made way to the corrupt politicians to plunder India even more, the British ruled prison dump Australia is a developed country today but India still remains third world, i do like his movement of non violence but no i don't think Gandhi had was a good leader because he lacked the decision making skills at the most important times.
Again, this is a whole different debate.
Brits were no good to Indians, their presence in Australia/NZ wipped out the indigenous population almost completely.
The sooner they left, the better it is. This was bound to happen, they left us with a huge bureaucracy and fvcked up system.
I know he made a grave mistake by letting Nehru run the country, but mind it Nehru was vastly popular. There was no one who was more popular than him including patel. Patel was very well known and very respected but he was not mass popular(and there is your point about speaker v/s doer applied in this case).
India was poor, British futher made the problem even worse by enlarging the gap. There was way too much divide in country because of nature of the our diversity. In reality India was a real country only during Ashok's reign and to some extent Akbar's time(but that was never fully accepted in most part of north). Otherwise there were too many identities. No matter how british have left and no matter how we won freedom, the result of aftermath of freedom was set. Gandhi couldn't have stopped it.
Brits were no good, they were vultures feeding on meats of dying Indians, make no mistake.
Arrgh, waiting for my internet to work to reply on this.
Asoka did rule quite a chuck of this country but still the southern part of India was always ruled by a completely different rulers since thousands of years, but Asoka did accomplish making by making this country almost Buddhist and Jain, in fact Tamil Nadu welcomed Buddhism and Jainism with open arms and converted after Asoka sent thousand of Jain and Buddhist people here stating that this region was very wealthy and he wanted those people to settle here, after ashoka's reign Tamil Nadu was a almost fully a land of Jainism and Buddhism for many hundreds of years and hence Buddhism spread to srilanka.
That was not the point I was making. The point was that Ashok has the biggest empire as India ever had. The idea of India as a country was already brought into light by Chanakya, who knew that Chandragupt never had enough guts to pull that feat of. However Ashok did it( after mentoring from Chankya ofcourse), but mind it Jainism and Buddhism were considered hinduism until very later. Infact in North Jains are just considered Baniya, they visit temple and do most thing same as hindus. Ashok stopped fighting at some point because he got fed up. Sikhism, Jainism and Buddhism are essential Hinduism wrapped in different package.
The British thought that the Idea that India as a country never existed is so much bull-shit. When the Greeks invaded India they were surprised that we had such rich culture and wisdom.
West has downplayed that the culture is not that old because they do not enough evidence to prove it, but they have been discrediting the finding for years only that new evidence resurface every now and then to change that belief. The whole civilization around Indus valley, harrappa and Mohenjodaro is as old as 10k years old.
@RajaPraveen, I am somewhat a supporter of Modi, so I'd like to ask you, what are you suggesting, Congress was better, or this government is not going to be any different from what we had before, and thus we should all be pessimists.
I'd also like to point out, Hinduism is not really a religion, but a way of living, which is characteristic of those living beyond the Indus river. It is not a single religion, but a culmination of traditions and cultures of these people.
Dunno what tangent you guys have hit off on, but I for one loved what happened in "ModisOwn Garden"
1 - Never before has a leader (at least in my life time) created this level of interest/euphoria.
1b - No leader that I am aware of, from south east Asia has created this euphoria for its people settled abroad. Look at Pakistan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, China even for that matter.
2 - His points were hard hitting and directed at everyone. Be it foreigners who consider India to be the land of snake Charmers or consider us unable to handle ourselves.
I would like to share this video to express my point -
After the video, moving on -
3 - The next avenue of investment/money/growth is from the Indians settled abroad. He has hit the right chords in this direction. Announcing these sops would only encourage people to invest in India.
4 - He was humble when he said, that this responsibility that he has gotten, will be executed with utmost care and dedication. Not many people have spoken with such honesty. Carefully chosen words, I must say.
5 - This is all part of the plan for the turn around of the economy, and I wouldn't be surprised, since this will work.
What raja is saying here is that so far all of this is big talks.
Raja wants there to be action in correlation to the talks.
And he is right about it, though it is bit too early to see the action.
Agreed, but it has to be in steps.
And for the thought to progress, the following has to be created.
He (Modi) already has following all over, now it's time to convert the followers into faithfuls and believers. Then only will his actions work.
I'm not comparing Sir MK Gandhi, but essentially that's how it worked. He was a leader, and the masses were not just followers, but believers, that's why the non-cooperation movement worked as well.
all i am saying is that as far as i can see and i have been saying the same from the day modi and Gujarat was being projected big is that its all a bit too much of a hype than real fact, for now i find no difference between BJP and congress, Modi or any leader from congress, all feel they are all the same thieves in different avatars, i just really hope that i am absolutely wrong.
Also i don't want to get into Hinduism talks, i personally never believed in any religion or the so called way of life or what ever new term they will use for the same in future, they are all just human invented grouping which lead the way to politics and more discussion will only lead to bad argument and noting good is going to come out of it, you might even call me a racist but i believe race is the only actual factor which really divides and groups people and is the basic of all individual tribe cultures and traditions,it had existed so long before even humans knew something called as a religion or the invention of gods, so i believe more in the existence race&tribe than in the useless invention called religion or god.
Interesting point actually, if you think about it almost every country has gone through similar invasion, India has gone through so many invasions in the past thousands of years from the time when the first tribe from Africa moved and settled here, later when the other tribes and races started to invade they were ousted to other parts this country and some were even wiped out. They all did co exist together in this large chunk of land we call India even though they were divided and fought wars among themselves.
I'd actually like to point out, that there is a lot happening which isn't as evident to the people. My mum is in a government job and she has been telling me the various circulars (orders) that have been coming in, and things which have never been heard of, such as all government employees declaring theirs and their immediate families assets, coming in on 2nd October for complete cleaning of office, maintaining record of paper used and imposing limits to increase communication and office were via digital media and data storage, more stringent budget, etc. Hence a lot is happening, but it will take time before it trickles down to the people, and honestly this is the right way for things to go, making drastic changes like Kejriwal did for electricity prices (Mind you they were temporary) is not the right way to do it.
Besides that, I have been told at least in Delhi, by some other family members that the atmosphere in government offices has changed, employees are coming on time, people are being taken care of properly, etc. Turning a blind eye towards the good that is happening and whining how nothing every changes is not helpful.
I agree there is a lot more hype than actual action, but to a certain extant this hype is in turn the source of energy and reason why they have to continue to deliver on their promise, as Modi and BJP themselves know, if they don't deliver, they are dead for a long time to come.
Regarding Hinduism, I too am pretty much an atheist, and only wanted to add to the discussion that was happening.
That must be way too long ago. The known history goes as far as aryan invasion(if that ever happened) and then whole harappa and mohenjodaro thing.
Though yes everyone has moved out from africa, but that is too rudimentary to be called as civilization.
Yes the Aryan invasion( if it had happened) was after the Indus valley civilization, the script found in indus valley is similar to old dravidian scrips so it is believed dravidians moved towards the south and parts of orissa and Maharashtra when the Aryan invasion happened, there are bits and pieces of proof for this with the help of carbon dating but nothing enough to understand what actually happened.
This is also the same case with almost all parts of the world, invasions kept happening people traveled in groups and settled in places they found suitable for them, so from that point of view i believe no particular land belongs to any particular race in this world, only factor is the time difference were some races invaded earlier than the other.
Well to some point that is valid. However the civilization that lived for a longer duration and made that place a civilization could easily claim the belonging. There are no real dravidian or aryans remaining anymore in the lands, we all have fvcked each other to produce multiracial babies. India is such a mix of so many races.
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